Is Cy Young some whet over rated? Hear me out?
Question:Yes he has 511 wins in “815” starts. He only had two 200 k seasons out of 22 years . He had 6 really good years out of 22 with a lot of win and the rest were average or .500/below. It looks to me that this guy just accumulated a lot of numbers off of playing a long time. He was never really dominate. He just won a lot of games on teams that had great run support.
Examples:
Cy Young pitched 7,356 innings and has 2,803 k’s
Pedro Martinez has pitched 2,645 innings and has 2,998 k’s. ( He was dominate )
Cy Young has 511 wins in 815 starts and 76 shut outs.
Walter Johnson has 417 wins in 666 starts and 110 shut outs
( He was dominate on a bad Senators team. )
Cy Young has (2) 200 k season out of 22.
Sandy Koufax has (6) 200 k season out of 11( He was dominate )
I personally think Cy Young was a good pitcher in the right place at the right time on good teams. Had he played on other teams I don’t think his pitching ability wins him that many games
Answers:
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His numbers are definitely reflective of that of longevity than it is pure talent.He was a work horse that got a lot of wins and not much more.
for his time he was awesome but if he pitched today he wouldnt to so good bcuz batters r better then they were in the 1900's
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your right, but you can't diminish his records its still alot he was not the greatest, but he was up there. also you can say the same about Nolan Ryan, Don Sutton, or Hank Aaron.Keep this in mind about Cy Young: while some of the numbers do not impress, he was durable. Young often pitched in three-man rotations, and sometimes made 80 starts in a season. Hence the mind-boggling numbers. Remember this: how good would Cy Young have been if the Major Leagues were integrated?
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That's an interesting point.Maybe he is a little overrated because he won so many games, pitched so many complete games/innings. How many pitchers make it in the 8th inning now-a-days?
I think you made a great point and used lots of facts to support your opinion.
Strikeouts were not part of the game back then.And it doesn't matter how they get out as long as they do. And what really matters in the W.Wins are wins nor matter how you get them.
Example-
Nolan Ryan passed Walter Johnson for all time strikeout leader sometime in the 1970's or 80's.Not sure when.Since then 8 others have passed him.
Here's what I found in comparing Cy Young's stats to Johnson's, Koufax's and Pedro's:
CY: 22 seasons, 815 games started, 749 complete games, 76 shutouts
WJ: 21 seasons, 666 GS, 531 CG, 110 SO
SK: 12 seasons, 314 GS, 137 CG, 40 SO
PM: 15+ seasons, 375 GS, 46 CG, 17 SO
CY: 1.13 WHIP, 2.63 ERA
WJ: 1.06 WHIP, 2.17 ERA
SK: 1.11 WHIP, 2.76 ERA
PM: 1.03 WHIP, 2.81 ERA
CY: 138 HR allowed
WJ: 97 HR allowed
SK: 204 HR allowed
PM: 213 HR allowed
The one thing I noticed in your question though, is that you compared Cy Young to 3 different pitchers, but not in every category. You compared him to a different pitcher in each category. That alone should show you how incredible his numbers are! And to be that consistent for 22 seasons is astounding! There is obviously no way to compare old school pitchers to today's pitchers in a fair way, but consistency is one great measuring stick to start with.
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You make some good points. He never was a real force to be reckoned with nor and intimidating factor to opponents.He simply just out dueled opposing pitchers throughout his career and tallied up a ton of wins. The ball was not made as well either at that was a huge factor.
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He must have been pretty good to win almost 100 more games than any other pitcher. He obviously was doing something right - something that no other pitcher of his era managed to do.if he was alive and pitching today he would stink, back then the pitchers pitched every other day almost.
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One thing that's often overlooked about Cy Young was his control. I'm not able to pull up the numbers, but he issued very few walks per nine innings.There were certainly other pitchers for whom a case could be made to name the award after. In fact, Young died shortly before the award was established, and that may have been as much of a factor in naming the award after him instead of someone else. Having an award named after someone will often bolster everyone's perception of him.
Great pitcher? Undoubtedly. Best ever? That could be argued.
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Actually, you make a very good point. I think what made Cy Young such a legend is that he was the first pitcher to do the things he did, not to mention to have the longevity he did in an era when pitchers didn't last as long as they tend to now. Was he the greatest pitcher ever? probably not. Was he great in his time? absolutelyMore Questions & Answers...